sincere: DGM: Lenalee's back to the viewer (0)
Kay ([personal profile] sincere) wrote 2012-03-13 03:05 am (UTC)

So what you're saying is, no, you have no proof that Final Fantasy XIII added Fang/Vanille slash content to appeal to a niche market; you only have proof that because terrible manga that I don't care about admit to doing it, it's just how it works.

You think that what you're doing is making a distinction between pandering and gratifying, but what you're doing here is saying: "Either the relationship is 100% gay, or it's 100% straight. If it's 75% straight and 25% gay, it's just senseless, cruel pandering! Or if it's 100% gay but no one makes out, that's just a cynical appeal to people who like gayness!" It sounds like you want things to be in neat little predefined unshakeable boxes, and you get upset and call it "fanservice" whenever a straight character has a moment with a friend that could be called gay.

But that's normal for humans. Little boxes aren't how sexuality works. You say that because Estelle says "Rita's such a good friend!" there's no earthly way that Estelle could ever see Rita as more than a friend. But I look at it and I see that Estelle doesn't know Rita could feel that way. Estelle doesn't know a lot of things -- like how to handshake, or that cooks taste their food, or what having a friend is even like. Rita is her first female friend. How should she be expected to recognize immediately if her feelings for Rita are slightly different than her feelings for her other friends when she's never had any friends? Estelle is a little too busy to sit down and meditate on the difference in her feelings between her friends and sort and categorize them. And she is capable of learning, either because Rita confesses or because she does notice her own feelings, and she is capable of returning Rita's affection. There's no proof against it: only a lack of proof for it. And I also see is Estelle fixating on Judith's cleavage immediately after an adrenaline-stirring battle, and fixating on Rita above all her other friends. And that looks, at the very least, bisexual to me.

Here, I'm going to take what you just said and turn it around. Ichigo doesn't have any clue how Orihime feels about him. He's constantly referring to her as if she's just one of his friends, and just not even noticing when Orihime is mooning over him. Does that mean he's never going to return her feelings? Does it mean he's gay, no further argument necessary? Some people certainly think so! But I don't, and I don't think you do. Or is it different because Ichigo is a man and men are allowed to not know how women feel, but Estelle is a woman and as such she is required to know right away whether or not she returns Rita's feelings? Or is it different because Ichigo and Orihime are straight, and Estelle and Rita are gay?

It doesn't have to be 100% undeniably gay. Would I like to see 100% gay characters who aren't stereotypes? Of course. I would much prefer to have straight, bi, and gay character options in games like DA and ME than to have everyone be bi like they were in DA2. I'm thrilled to hear that there's a 100% gay man in ME3!

But I don't consider it invalidated unless I get to hear Vanille swear a solemn oath that she will never touch a dick. I am capable of enjoying subtext. And the subtext that I get from the bullshit that you're quoting as examples of cynicism is "Homosexuality is laughable! Look at this hilarious scene where Naruto kisses Sasuke by accident. Whoops! Now they're throwing up. Girls love this stuff, I guess!" or "Kanji's Shadow is gay! Let's make fun of him for the next 30 hours, throwing near-constant homophobic commentary his way! This is called being open-minded!"

So please, please, please don't tell me that the only options are "LOL GAY GUYS, AMIRITE? GIVE ME MONEY" or "I HAVE A SEXUAL INTEREST IN YOU, RITA, BECAUSE I REJECT PENISES."

Is it ideal to have to settle for ambiguities? No.

Does that mean that any ambiguity is just an attempt to cash in on my greedy lust for gay porn? Absolutely not.


And for the record, three reasons you're wrong about the incest?

1) Your husband or your wife is also your family. No one would say "I'm so glad I have my family and also my husband here to help me."

2) Fang hugs Vanille in chapter 11 and tells her, "Keep that up and you'll have me crying soon. We have a new family now. We stick together, you hear me?" Not only does this not in any way imply that she considers Vanille a sister, it refers to the entire group as an entity, not just the two of them. We have a family.

3) Vanille tells Hope earlier in chapter 11, "On Gran Pulse, we're all family," to comfort him when his eidolon attacks. This is what Fang is referring to when she tells Vanille we're family: Vanille telling Hope that they're all family. So if Fang telling Vanille the thing that Vanille told Hope is incest, then I'm pretty sure you see the implication there, right?

Post a comment in response:

This account has disabled anonymous posting.
If you don't have an account you can create one now.
HTML doesn't work in the subject.
More info about formatting