![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Entry tags:
Springkink prompts!
Something awesome I've discovered: if I use the Portable Apps suite, and bring the USB it's on to work, I can be running my home Firefox on my work PC. LJ Login and all! It's beautiful.
I want to encourage any writery types to check out![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
kinkfest! The prompts are up and open for claiming.
A giant list of the prompts available are here, and none of them are due until May -- so there's plenty of time for you to get writing if you're inspired by any of them. Fics can be anything 100 words or more, and they don't have to be porn, despite the community name.
Please just for the sake of seeing, do a search for your fandom and take a look at the prompts? Do it for me!
I am also available to provide dry commentary on prompts if anyone is interested in hearing me bitch about any of them based on characterization, cliches, trends, or overall intelligence level. Name a fandom I know and I will do it. Hell, I already have, over IM.
I want to encourage any writery types to check out
kinkfest! The prompts are up and open for claiming.A giant list of the prompts available are here, and none of them are due until May -- so there's plenty of time for you to get writing if you're inspired by any of them. Fics can be anything 100 words or more, and they don't have to be porn, despite the community name.
Please just for the sake of seeing, do a search for your fandom and take a look at the prompts? Do it for me!
I am also available to provide dry commentary on prompts if anyone is interested in hearing me bitch about any of them based on characterization, cliches, trends, or overall intelligence level. Name a fandom I know and I will do it. Hell, I already have, over IM.
no subject
no subject
I am not really into any Hope pairings; Vanille/Hope is cute and all, but Vanille is so gay and she behaves the way she did with him to everyone; Hope wasn't special. I know Lightning/Hope is -- or was -- popular, but I just didn't care for it. Then there's Alyssa/Hope, which is just -- delusional and/or deranged. (Some of the Alyssa/Hope prompts on springkink are kind of scary, going on and on about what a wild untamed beast Hope is. Really? Really?) I'm sure there's Snow/Hope out there, and I don't care to go over all the reasons I don't like that. I think Serah/Hope could be cute, but again, I don't want it in huge doses. I just think it could be cute.
But, you know. Lightning/Snow is fine, if done right! But if everyone is doing it all the time, then I start going, "Really? Did no one play the same game I did? The one where Lightning loves and would never betray her sister, and where Snow is 110% devoted to Serah? The one where, given that, even if they were attracted to each other, they would lock that up in a box and throw away the key and never speak of or act on it? This is crazy!"
orz
no subject
I also take issue with your assertion that Vanille is gay (she's not, it's just fanservice) and "she's like that with everyone" (She's cheerful and friendly with everyone true, but she has specific chemistry with Hope), but I don't have the energy right now to go into more depth.
I agree very much with the rest, however. I particularly hate anything that breaks up Snow/Serah, if only because of how dedicated Snow is to her.
no subject
no subject
We're going to have to agree to disagree about Vanille, but it bothers me that you would write off what you can't deny is her most significant personal relationship as "just fanservice". Do you have any evidence for saying that? Any interviews with directors or producers or writers where they said, "We threw in some hints about girl-on-girl action, because we know that sort of thing makes money"? Because if you do, then I'll back off and just be sad at humanity. But if you don't, then I have to take it up with you.
What if I said, I think Vanille's chemistry with Hope is only there to pacify homophobes who would be up in arms about a positive portrayal of an otherwise obvious lesbian relationship? Would you say that's ridiculous? If Fang were a male character, the way she was originally planned to be according to her wiki page, would you still think their relationship was just fanservice, or would you think there was something more to it?
It's complete dismissal. It's saying, "Sure, it's there. But it doesn't count!" Yesterday
I'm going to use as an example another fandom I was in: Code Geass, aka No One Will Ever Compare To Our Fanservice. This is what fanservice is:
It's fanservice when Code Geass finds repeated excuses to show us ass and tit shots; to get its female characters naked; to dress everyone up in silly or sexy costumes -- despite being a serious dramatic show. It's also fanservice when side-material makes the female characters gossip about how the main male characters might end up making out with each other, and dresses them up in girl's clothing -- several times. It's a pretty good show, honestly. It's just terribly, terribly fanservicey. You have to ignore the deeply exploitative and occasionally distressing official art. Go ahead, Google "Code Geass fanservice" and have a great time. But it's not fanservice that those two main male characters are important to each other! That's just part of the story.
It's not fanservice when two female characters care for each other more than anyone else, have been together for literally centuries, repeatedly hug and gaze into each other's eyes significantly, think and worry about each other constantly, more than once sacrifice themselves for the other... It's not fanservice when they ultimately give their lives to combine into one being to sleep together in a crystal pillar for the rest of eternity in order to save mankind. That's their entire story, and it's not fanservice. It's just part of the story. And it's inherently pretty gay.
It's one thing to say "I don't care for it" and another thing to say "They're only pretending to be lesbians for cold hard cash-generating purposes." That takes something that you're admitting is present in the canon, and delegitimizes it by saying it's 100% cynicism, thrown in there to appeal to a niche market, literally just an attempt to trick gullible fools like me into seeing something that they didn't want to be there.
So if you do have a quote, I apologize for inflicting this long essay on you! But people do say that, and do think that, and don't realize that what they're saying is, "There's no way anyone could actually want to show two women in a caring relationship! Why would anyone want to use subtlety to portray an underrepresented and often-marginalized minority in any form of media? It can only be a jaded tactic to earn more money."
I think their relationship and their significance to each other is beautiful; not exploited or fanservicey in any way. I don't think everyone is obligated to ship it. Shipping is a matter of preference! And if you want to ship Vanille with Hope, or with Serah or Sazh -- go right ahead. That's cool! Even if Vanille had kissed Fang full on the mouth in their last moments (and if they did, would that also be fanservice? or would that officially be gay?) you would still be 100% entitled to ship her with Hope.
But it sounds a little homophobic to say that Fang and Vanille's relationship was straight characters playacting at lesbianism as a marketing ploy that I fell for, and it has no actual bearing on their characters, like they're just actors playing out a movie scene and then the real Vanille only has chemistry with Hope.
P.S.: Fanfiction.net has 120 Fang/Vanille fics, 60 Hope/Vanille fics, and 350 Lightning/Hope fics. I think Lightning/Hope is the real threat you should have an issue with, since it isn't canon, and it is kind of creepy. Meanwhile, my secret FFXIII love, Sazh/Lightning, has fewer than 20...
no subject
As far as the game programmer thing goes, I do have the strat guide for Persona 4, where they actually ask one of the designers if they'd include another gay scenario in the series, as in one of the P2 games. The guy outright said they put it in because there was a large segment of females that liked that kinda stuff. Given how prevalent this kinda thing is in Japanese media these days, I very much doubt he's the only one with this reasoning.
Another reason I think this is related to your House example. The House and Wilson friendship dynamic has been played for fanservice over and over, and it's easy to see that because this is a show, as you said, which had Thirteen's character arc, as well as numerous other gay characters, contained therein. That's not even mentioning the fact that both House and Wilson have had numerous female love interests each, as well as several hookers. This falls under my manipulation thing. You know they're not going to make them gay, and they know it too, but they continue to play this coy game anyway.
For Japanese examples, take Naruto. Everybody knows about the stuff between Naruto and Sasuke. Forgetting the fact that Shounen manga next to never have actual yaoi in them, Naruto himself is depicted as being incredibly interested in his female teammate. Additionally, he has another female kunoichi incredibly interested in him, and that particular pairing looks more and more like it'll become canon.
Of course this isn't limited to Naruto. The creator of Prince of Tennis admits to putting that kinda thing in to draw the aforementioned female demographic in.
Japanese RPGs by and large cater to this same shounen manga audience, and when they don't give the characters involved het love interests, they usually downplay it some other way. Rita/Estelle they do it by making Estelle go "You're a great friend too, Rita!" every time you get the notion they might be lesbians (Incidentally, that's why I can't do that pairing reciprocated. I cannot imagine a scenario where Estelle could wrap her head around Rita being gay for her). Fang/Vanille they do it when Vanille gets her Eidolon, where Fang openly says "You're family to me, just like everyone else here is family." So unless Fang is open to incestual moresomes, I can't do that either.
You know what I really want? A regular character who just happens to be gay. Not a bunch of horrid stereotypes combined into one character (Joshua; TWEWY), just a person who is just an every day person who has a different sexual preference. For example, in Mass Effect 3, your shuttle pilot is gay. He mentions losing a husband in an alien attack, and later he's crying over the last vid his husband left him, and Shepard can comfort him over it. It's depicted as just a guy who lost his meaningful other; the gender makes no difference.
Hell, for all that fanboys on youtube like to drool over the female!Shepard/Liara thing, it is also depicted in that manner. The only lesbian crack made is in ME2, and that's just Joker's personality. I see no decent reason why these Japanese games and shows can't do something similar.
I note that Fang/Vanille is a secondary pairing in a lot of fics, so the character scroll option will not tell the whole story.
no subject
You think that what you're doing is making a distinction between pandering and gratifying, but what you're doing here is saying: "Either the relationship is 100% gay, or it's 100% straight. If it's 75% straight and 25% gay, it's just senseless, cruel pandering! Or if it's 100% gay but no one makes out, that's just a cynical appeal to people who like gayness!" It sounds like you want things to be in neat little predefined unshakeable boxes, and you get upset and call it "fanservice" whenever a straight character has a moment with a friend that could be called gay.
But that's normal for humans. Little boxes aren't how sexuality works. You say that because Estelle says "Rita's such a good friend!" there's no earthly way that Estelle could ever see Rita as more than a friend. But I look at it and I see that Estelle doesn't know Rita could feel that way. Estelle doesn't know a lot of things -- like how to handshake, or that cooks taste their food, or what having a friend is even like. Rita is her first female friend. How should she be expected to recognize immediately if her feelings for Rita are slightly different than her feelings for her other friends when she's never had any friends? Estelle is a little too busy to sit down and meditate on the difference in her feelings between her friends and sort and categorize them. And she is capable of learning, either because Rita confesses or because she does notice her own feelings, and she is capable of returning Rita's affection. There's no proof against it: only a lack of proof for it. And I also see is Estelle fixating on Judith's cleavage immediately after an adrenaline-stirring battle, and fixating on Rita above all her other friends. And that looks, at the very least, bisexual to me.
Here, I'm going to take what you just said and turn it around. Ichigo doesn't have any clue how Orihime feels about him. He's constantly referring to her as if she's just one of his friends, and just not even noticing when Orihime is mooning over him. Does that mean he's never going to return her feelings? Does it mean he's gay, no further argument necessary? Some people certainly think so! But I don't, and I don't think you do. Or is it different because Ichigo is a man and men are allowed to not know how women feel, but Estelle is a woman and as such she is required to know right away whether or not she returns Rita's feelings? Or is it different because Ichigo and Orihime are straight, and Estelle and Rita are gay?
It doesn't have to be 100% undeniably gay. Would I like to see 100% gay characters who aren't stereotypes? Of course. I would much prefer to have straight, bi, and gay character options in games like DA and ME than to have everyone be bi like they were in DA2. I'm thrilled to hear that there's a 100% gay man in ME3!
But I don't consider it invalidated unless I get to hear Vanille swear a solemn oath that she will never touch a dick. I am capable of enjoying subtext. And the subtext that I get from the bullshit that you're quoting as examples of cynicism is "Homosexuality is laughable! Look at this hilarious scene where Naruto kisses Sasuke by accident. Whoops! Now they're throwing up. Girls love this stuff, I guess!" or "Kanji's Shadow is gay! Let's make fun of him for the next 30 hours, throwing near-constant homophobic commentary his way! This is called being open-minded!"
So please, please, please don't tell me that the only options are "LOL GAY GUYS, AMIRITE? GIVE ME MONEY" or "I HAVE A SEXUAL INTEREST IN YOU, RITA, BECAUSE I REJECT PENISES."
Is it ideal to have to settle for ambiguities? No.
Does that mean that any ambiguity is just an attempt to cash in on my greedy lust for gay porn? Absolutely not.
And for the record, three reasons you're wrong about the incest?
1) Your husband or your wife is also your family. No one would say "I'm so glad I have my family and also my husband here to help me."
2) Fang hugs Vanille in chapter 11 and tells her, "Keep that up and you'll have me crying soon. We have a new family now. We stick together, you hear me?" Not only does this not in any way imply that she considers Vanille a sister, it refers to the entire group as an entity, not just the two of them. We have a family.
3) Vanille tells Hope earlier in chapter 11, "On Gran Pulse, we're all family," to comfort him when his eidolon attacks. This is what Fang is referring to when she tells Vanille we're family: Vanille telling Hope that they're all family. So if Fang telling Vanille the thing that Vanille told Hope is incest, then I'm pretty sure you see the implication there, right?
no subject
Now, if KT ends the manga and gives no conclusion whatsoever as to what's been going on between him and Orihime, I will certainly bitch about that. As I noted before, I hate this kinda thing with straight pairings too.
As for the rest, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I am far too cynical to give these companies the benefit of the doubt. I need actual proof to the contrary. I really do understand the point you're making, and in almost any other scenario, I would totally agree. But here my cynicism does not allow me to ignore media trends as it pertains to yaoi/yuri fanservice.
In any event, I enjoyed the debate, and again I hope I didn't come across as too confrontational here. I'll let you get back to your playing of Silent Hill and Tales.
no subject
It's very true that ho-yay/les-yay is played up in Western and Eastern entertainment. No one's going to dispute the fact that it's there. However, it's not all purely fanservice. Dismissing it all as fanservice is offensive to the gay/straight/bi people who look at it and are overjoyed to see what would, in any other situation -- by your own admission -- be a legitimate relationship. That Cortez is gay in Mass Effect 3 is a big fucking deal. That Traynor is a lesbian is a big fucking deal. Some people will forever see them as pandering to the homosexuals who have the gall to want representation when they build a character they're supposed to identify with. That's a shame. Others will be delighted that they can finally be a gay male in Mass Effect 3. And others will be delighted for them.
Again, the trouble with what you're saying comes from your implication that Fang/Vanille would be legitimate in any other arrangement. If Fang was a guy, their relationship would be solid. If Vanille was a guy, the relationship would be valid. And your only "proof" of it not being valid is... les-yay. If you want to be cynical and only validate a presentation of gays and lesbians in a way that doesn't seem exploitative, get to the back of the line, because women have been waiting for that since time began. Don't piss in our Cheerios because we've learned to take what we can get.
no subject
Because you know what? That's exposure. The more people see of that, the more normal lesbians become. And the more normal lesbians become, the more they'll be featured in the main stream and SOMEDAY, a video game will let you be a lesbian (or a gay man) and no one will care. There won't be mass trolling on Metacritic or Facebook or whatever.
So, yes, give me more Fang/Vanille fanservice, and less Cornelia/Euphemia cuddling half naked for absolutely no reason.