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An Open Letter to Confused Fans

Dear Kingdom Hearts Fandom:

I know that we're all very proud of our Chain of Memories knowledge. But the big castle with luminous white interior decorating in The World That Never Was is not Castle Oblivion.

Castle Oblivion, seen once in the prologue of KH2 before Sora's memories fuzz out, is a big castle with luminous white interior decorating not located near the Dark City.

The big castle with luminous white interior decorating in The World That Never Was, located in the Dark City, is known -- creatively -- as The Castle That Never Was.

I don't know where it came from or why, but whatever it's called officially, please remember that it is obviously not Castle Oblivion. Castle Oblivion is classical and not technological. It is found in the middle of a huge grassy field on a cliff.

Please stop confusing the two. I know I'm nitpicky, but it's kind of driving me crazy. Xemnas doesn't live under Marluxia's roof.

Thanks! ♥

--Kay

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...oh, good. You wrote it so that I didn't have to. It drives me nuts, too.

I think the part that kind of amuses me most is the assumption that Xemnas just appointed someone else to be the lord of the castle he lives in. XD And where were all these other members of the Organization during all the... death?

The secret behind CoM is that the entire Organization had taken a road trip to stay at Xigbar's cousin's beach house, and the ones who were left behind weren't allowed to go. Explains Axel's behavior!

Grounded, was he?

...see, I haven't even played CoM, just read script (I have no GBA and the ROM for it SUCKS), and I STILL knew they were totally different castles. Thanks for clarifying, because I admit I was starting to wonder if I'd missed the memo somewhere and they WERE the same.

That's what he gets for getting too enthusiastic with the paint!

I don't think it's hard to figure out -- I never thought it was Castle Oblivion -- but because it's never named in game and a lot of fans assume it was, the issue keeps getting confused.

But we do see Castle Oblivion for like three seconds in KH2, and it doesn't look like Never Was at all, which is part of why I didn't make that assumption either.

It MAY have to do with fans who have not played CoM, just heard about it? I mean, that's the only thing I can think of. The name DOES vaguely fit Xemnas' scheme, and if one doesn't pick up on the fact that gee, Sora could not have GOTTEN to the World that Never Was (which is frickin' hard to miss, thanks Chip 'n Dale)...

Well, but we do see Castle Oblivion in KH2, right before Sora's memories stop going into Roxas -- and it's bizarre-looking outside and it's pretty clearly not in the middle ofthe Dark City.

You do make a good point though. Lots of people who haven't played it might not have made the connection that the point where Sora's memories stop = the point where CoM beings -> that castle is Oblivion.

~~We're looking at you, CFUD.~~

That and, from what I can tell, Castle Oblivion is somewhere on the Disney Castle world? (Go easy on me, I haven't actually played CoM, either -- I need to download movies, at least?)

And I actually think it does identify itself as "The Castle That Never Was" when you head up the bridge towards it. Maybe I'm wrong, and it just gives the room name...?

But, yeah. Not Castle Oblivion. For one thing, distinctly lacking in staircases -- there are only three of them, and they don't wind around, and though I know the shot of all the staircase-running was representational, not literal, it still seemed preeeeetty clear to me from all of the floor-hopping that Castle Oblivion was filled with staircases.

Also, TCTNW has all those rooms that make no sense, with the swirling, and its architecture is kind of disjointed. As in, here's a pink room where the path is made of pink light; here's a normal-looking white room with a staircase; here's an area that actually looks like a castle with grey stone and such; oh, and here's a room where all of the doors are tombstone-shaped portals of light.

I guess we don't know what Castle Oblivion actually looks like, since all we ever see of the floors are Sora's memories -- like, I doubt that floor #1 is actually Traverse Town -- but clearly it was nothing like this.

Actually, even that's not totally true. We know what castle oblivion looks like (sort of) - you have the...top floor, I think, and in between the floors, which appears to be the normal look. Which is more or less blinding white stone, the weird mini-mausoleums, and the white stone flower arrangements. I got the impression that all of castle oblivion looks like Namine's room in KH2 (er, her room in the mansion, I mean, if that's not clear.)

That being said, Castle Oblivion pretty clearly isn't the Castle That Never Was, even if that castle is never named in-game. (And this is why I stay out of fandom, really.)

I agree with you, but that's why I think though that you'd have to notice. XD Castle Oblivion, from what we see of it inside, is very classical with solid white pillars and immaculate walls. It's not anything like Never Was, which is vaguely gadgety and ephemeral.

But what are you going to do? XD They never DO name The Castle That Never Was. And that is a pretty stupid name, itself. (The World That Never Was, okay. But the castle...? Whatever.)

Oh! What I meant was, it's not actually true that we don't know what Castle Oblivion looks like, which as you say, is another point for, you know, it not being TCTNW, or whatever the official name of that place is.

(And for another thing, while Castle Oblivion is odd, it largely obeys the laws of physics inasmuch as they apply in KH games.)

Okay, one thing I remember for SURE -- that white stuff is definitely the main decor, at some point, I think in the Secret Ansem Reports, the rooms that change with your memory are described as "White Rooms". So, yes, under the surface of whatever they offer to the visitor, those rooms would also be white.

*privately theorizes that members of organization xiii can see this just fine, unless someone with a heart is in the room at the time, because their memories aren't, you know, real, so they don't get room changing action themselves.*

And this seems as good as any place to ask: Do you guys agree that Namine alters memories via drawing? I mean, what happens in the intro movie for KHII with the chamber might be metaphorical, but...? I particularly like the idea on a poetic level, because I've often heard the phrase "draw a dream" in JPop lyrics. ♥

Not every floor is malleable -- the Organization floors are stable and don't change with memories. My assumption is kind of that you have to use your memories to travel through the floors of Castle Oblivion, hence why Sora received a world card from his memories that he had to use to open the door to each new floor. But the Organization members didn't need to go through the same trouble, because they can and do just teleport wherever they want to be. Members of OXIII never appeared on memory floors, except in Riku's story, and then only after Riku had used his own memory to open them. Once established, I don't think the floor changes until after the person who shaped it leaves.

I think that a Nobody could create a memory in Castle Oblivion. After all, they all have memories... it's one of the few things they do have.

I do agree that drawing is, if not the direct method, at least the focus for her unusual magic. I think the opening movie is more a metaphor -- she tends to draw memories and not things she's creating. None of her sketches, as I recall, have her in them. They're all of things Roxas really did or Sora really did. I think she just uses them as a way to focus her attention on the memories, and then... work them.

Oh, you ruin my fun! Bathrooms that randomly fill with memories amuse me~!

(But I agree on the room not changing until the person leaves, otherwise there would be such chaos. That wasn't why I thought Nobodies might not be able to activate the memory floors. I thought that because I'm horrible!)

Yeah, they have memories -- but since the whole thing is also about hearts, since the "chain of memories" is supposed to be in Sora's heart, are you sure their memories count...? (I'm horrible, I just like the idea of, like, Demyx trying to get their memories to show up and having it not work. ♥ ANGST~.)

And, that was mine~ But I'm so used to the magic of the Firefox plugin now that I totally forgot to sign in before commenting on this computer. XD;

Not to bring this thread up if it's dead, but that's actually why I think Ansem is full of shit on the whole "Nobodies have no hearts" thing. If hearts are supposed to be chains of memory, then by definition, since the Nobodies DO retain memories, and in long chains of them, they MUST have hearts. I've formulated my own theory that because Nobodies only form from those with exceptionally strong wills/hearts, what happens is that the ENTIRE heart doesn't get ripped out by the Heartless, so Nobodies are the remaining scraps of the original heart.

...and I've got NO IDEA how to explain Roxas, Namine, and possibly Xehanort under that theory, but.

The game states that the floors themselves change depending on what cards you use and what memories you have, so not everyone would have Traverse Town, Agrabah, etc. But the floors that the Organization resides on, and the stairwells between floors, are all in the same style: an immaculate white Greek sort of thing, very classical, with pillars and marble.

But that still doesn't look like Never Was, because it's very techie-seeming and accordingly almost delicate, all transparencies.

I'm not sure I buy that it's actually on the same plane as Disney Castle -- I think Marluxia brought Sora et al there, that they stumbled without noticing into a world borderline the dark realm.

I can't remember where I read it, but Castle Oblivion is definitely not in the world of light -- it's either an in-between like Twilight Town, or part of the dark world.

I thought they explicitly said it was in an in-between place like Twilight Town. I know it's my assumption that the fields/greenery around Twilight Town are the same fields/sort of fields as we see in CoM, but I thought it was pretty clearly indicated that Castle Oblivion was another in-between place. =/ I'll have to go see why I think that.

Got it! Ansem Reports 7, 8, and 11, especially. Someone translated one line as, "As with Castle Oblivion, [Twilight Town] is a world between light and darkness."

Hee, you rock, thanks. ♥

♥

*Friend'd*

Cos your writing is awesome. :D And writing = more porny drawings. ~~can't go wrong with that.~~

More porn?! Yes sir. ♥

*friends back~*

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An Open Letter to Confused Fans

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