sincere | TotA: End-game thoughts + pairing thoughts

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TotA: End-game thoughts + pairing thoughts

refracting can't read.

unite will be sad, so maybe she shouldn't read either.

On Tear: Why couldn't we just let Tear die of blood cancer? Ion was worth about four of her. Of course, there are also about four of Ion, so...

On a non-prejudiced note regarding sacrifice: I really appreciate the way this game dealt with Tear's if-only-it-would-really-have-been-fatal fatal disease. Luke wants to tell her to stop doing the thing that's making her sick, but... he can't. They're saving the world. Tear's health is not more important than this. I'm so sick and tired of media telling me that your significant other is worth making any sacrifice for, no matter how ridiculously huge the sacrifice. My girlfriend's life in exchange for the survival of the world?! NEVER.

The only time I can recall seeing this done really well is in Tales of Symphonia. Lloyd is willing to let Colette "become an angel," even though it means losing her forever. But when he finds out what that entails, sees her growing misery and her slow deterioration, watches her growing further and further away from him over the course of weeks... He can't do it, in the end. He knows he should, but he just can't do it. (And then of course it turns out he shouldn't and they're all full of lies, but still.)

I also appreciate that, in theory, Tear tried to do the same thing -- tell Luke that if he chose to sacrifice himself in order to save the miasma, she would give him the same clemency that he gave her when she was the one sacrificing herself, when everyone else was furious with him for even trying. Although nothing helped him make up his mind until he met Asch, so determined to throw away his life, and Luke just had to out-stubborn him and so he became determined to die, even though he didn't want to.

Even though Tear was just lying.

On Asch v Luke: It's kind of pitiful, but I don't think either of them were ever listening to a word the other said -- especially Luke. I know that he wants to assert his identity and all, he's only just figured all this out, but their fight didn't even make sense. They were essentially agreeing with each other, Luke was just a tiny bit too dumb to realize it. Luke just kept trying to die because he insisted he wasn't good enough, and Asch just wanted him to see how fucking insulting it is when Luke, who stole his life, tried to throw it away. They both wanted to live, they both wanted the other guy to live. Why they had to end it shouting at each other I have no idea. If Luke had been a little less dense (and needless to say if Asch had been a little less proud and stubborn), maybe they could've gone together to Eldrant and the whole thing could've been avoided.

Of course, once the stupid genes got them both trapped, I suppose they had to deal with it one way or another.

On Asch's death: God he is made of tragedy. And I'm not that fond of their treatment of the aftermath of his death -- where mourning is interrupted by Jade slapping Natalia and telling her to suck it up, because she's holding them back and was holding Asch back, and Natalia later concludes that she was clinging to things that don't matter, so lalala Asch's death is essentially brushed past and moved on from before he's even cold. What the fuck, game? That's such a cruel thing to do when Asch obviously still loved her to the end. It'd have been okay if he hadn't, but you made a big deal about how much he did. You don't then get to say that Natalia's affection for him was ridiculous and she's done with him now. Guh, whatever. This game loves shafting Natalia in favor of Tear anyway.

On the aftermath of the credits: It's pretty obviously Luke (he's wearing the Key of Lorelei to be used left-handed, and Asch is right-handed), but I can see why there is a lot of confusion about whether or not it might be -- uh -- "also" Asch. I note, however, that the creators "refuse to comment" on exactly who it is, although they "know". Since it's fucking ridiculous to play mystery games if it's just Luke (and pretty ridiculous as it is) I assume that we're looking at a Lukeasch fusion situation on some level. Possibly a "normal" Luke, e.g. Asch if he hadn't gotten kidnapped. I wish Jade had told us about those theories he obviously possesses, but I can make them up on my own.

I also use this to deny Luke/Tear happening. If ending!Luke is 50/50 then only about 20% of him cares about Tear. :D And probably more like 60% of him cares about Natalia! *shot*

Thoughts on yaoi? (Longgg)
Things that I like...
Asch/Natalia. Obviously. "Sixty percent Natalia, thirty percent replica, and the rest is Van. Add it up and you've got all the boss ever talks about." She should've kissed the stupid out of him.

Guy/Asch. Yeah, still. Guy has made it very clear which Luke he prefers, but he's also become less prickly about Asch's existence, and Asch still care about him, in the same way that he still cares about Natalia, despite his lying. It'd never happen but I like it.

Guy/Luke. Of course I like it, Guy is the most loyal friend ever, and his impassioned and repeated insistence that Luke is worth something and should live is just touching -- especially because he knew that Luke had to sacrifice himself, and he was willing to take steps to let him do it. Those scenes at Duke Fabre's manor and surrounding the Tower of Rem revived my mostly leveled-off interest in the pairing. Guy can be more than just smiling and supportive!

Luke/Natalia. Yeah, this too! He knows her and understands her, and he sympathizes with her for their shared awkward situations, and he -- okay, when he heard the words Asch used to propose to her, those words stuck with him so well that after probably over a week he could still recite them back to her. ...and he did recite them back to her. Does he realize that he essentially proposed to her himself? Why oh why did she conclude that these proposals were "no longer valid"?

Luke/Noelle. Uh, it's a little random, but after the month went by and she suddenly got blushy at him, I finally realized what all her little stutters earlier were about, and I think it'd be really cute. XD

Anise/everyone. This is true. I can see Anise with everyone. Ion, Arietta, Luke, Jade, Guy-- She is in fact the only girl I actively approve of Guy hooking up with. (See commentary on Guy's sexuality later.)

Ion/Arietta. That poor girl...

Peony/Jade. The man who calls him "my Jade" and actually means it. I love everything about Peony, and especially his relationship with Jade. It's such a huge relief to see someone who can school him as well as Peony does.

Things that are interesting...
Jade/everyone. He gives off creepy pedophile vibes at everyone, it's awesome. Luke, Anise, Guy, Asch... I think I'd read it.

Asch/Arietta. ...what? They're the closest in age of the Six God-Generals, and she's helped Asch before. Also, Arietta is the only one of them who isn't made of composure and awesome; being more vulnerable, she might be someone he could almost... be relaxed, even sympathetic towards.

Van/everyone. Even Tear. Van is sex, it's true, sigh.

Things that are meh...
Asch/Luke. I see where you're coming from; Luke is such an endearing puppy when it comes to him, and they're so -- entangled. But the clonesex thing doesn't do it for me. Nor for Asch, it seems.

Guy/Noelle? It seems like it'd work, but. Such difficulty seeing Guy with women. ...Guy/Ginji?

Things I just can't do...
Jade/Dist. I can't get over exactly how little Jade cares about him. It's truly astounding. Although this gave me the first moment where I felt sympathetic to the pairing, the best I imagine I can manage is Jade and Saphir as children. (Oh man, I saw the Tales of Fandom where young!Jade decides he wants to meet the prince, but Peony is heavily guarded, so he shoves Saphir out into the crowd of guards so that they chase him and Jade can just waltz on in to meet Peony. Jade cheerfully relates how no one believed he'd been involved when Saphir tried to explain, because Jade was such a good student and a model citizen in the eyes of the adults. Priceless.)

Luke/Tear. I know, the L word, whatever, but they have absolutely zero interesting interactions. The only time when Luke ever reacted to her in a way I don't see him reacting to any of his friends if they were in her position is when they finished his hyperresonance training and they both got blushy and awkward -- and then she got the Big Sister title. That's right. Their only actually romantic moment was followed with the game deciding that she was like a big sister to him. Gross.

And then after a month apart Luke spent about ten minutes of the game blushing and getting flustered when he thought about her -- and then even that heavyhanded romance vibe vanished and it was back to square one, where the extent of his romantic action with her was other people telling him he was "dense" and should go cuddle with Tear, and Luke just sort of shrugging. Yeah, OTP. Totally.

Guy/Natalia. I'm just really not seeing this. They interact sometimes, but it's as often about Luke or Asch as not. He's solicitous of her, but I suspect that if he'd known either of the other females half as long as he knew her, he'd be equally as insightful about their distress, and equally as solicitous of them.

On Guy's heterosexuality: I don't believe it.
~~For someone who is allegedly straight, Guy sure seems to spend a lot of time thinking about Jade having gay sex with Dist and/or Peony.~~
~~No matter how many times I wandered through Grand Chokmah I never could get the scene that was supposed to prove he was "cured", so I assume he doesn't want to be cured.~~
I know that Guy finds women attractive. That's great! I'm totally okay with that. But lots of people find things appealing in abstract that wouldn't actually turn them on literally. It's the entire purpose of sexual fantasies. Lots of people fantasize about things they wouldn't enjoy in real life -- perfectly normal people with rape fantasies or a fascination with BDSM or an attraction to a hot guy who also happens to be psychotic/delusional/violent (see:

fandomsecrets and the many secrets professing to be in love with, say, Pyramid Head).

So Guy, I believe that you like women. I really do.

I just don't think you have sex with them. It seems like it would be hard, with all the shrieking and fleeing you do. And someone should sit him down and explain to him that you can appreciate women without wanting to do them.

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What :U why would I be sad?

I agree with a lot of this, except I flip the Jade/Dist and Jade/Peony, hohoh. XDD But that's really it - we agree on a lot of the same pairings, and we even agree that Jade really was overreacting when he slapped Natalia like that. Just because he's numb to death even then doesn't mean she has to be. D|

But yeah lalalala Guy love. XD I miss hiiiiiim ♥ and I agree with everything you said on his sexuality, too. He seems to be a little too interested in Jade's sex life XD

Because-- Because paranoia?!

It's especially unfair after Tear has spent the last thirty hours of the game sighing about Van/Legretta/Ion/whoever, really. XD But I love Guy so much, ack. He kind of wins everything for his performances in late-game. (Although I guess I might add Guy/Noir to my list of might-be-interesting pairings after their Nam Cobanda discussion. XD )

(I'm so sad, though, we went to Nam Cobanda Isle and I meant to save outside so that we could tell the not-Ant-Lion-Man that everyone ~~except Tear~~ was most important to us and see how they reacted, but we forgot, so we could only pick one... We picked Natalia, but it was so hard to choose between her and Guy. D: What would his skit have been liiiike.)

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhkjdfghkdjfg ugh, Tear, ugh game writers for pushing Natalia aside. D|

Randomly, I like Guy with just about anyone D: Does that make me a bad person?

(... all I ever do for that thing is pick Guy, and yet I can't really remember. I do know everyone's like, 'lol we knew that was coming.')

Hehe~ yeah, I have that in my mems, actually. I love Dist too much ahahah D8

Well, Guy is awesome, so you're allowed. (I virtually like Asch with everyone, so.) It's my personal mental block in that I can't really see Guy in straight pairings because I have difficulty getting past the phobia. I think in the end I can only see Guy with really aggressive women. XD Anise or Noir could maybe have him, because they would decide on him and then not stop until he was owned.

(My choice surprised people. X3 They all made wide-eyed comments that I cackled over, knowing that they were all surprised because I hadn't picked Tear. Tear herself was like, "Well, Natalia is very pretty." I appreciate the fact that she didn't hesitate and mourn her crush, and that Luke didn't attempt to tell anyone he didn't "mean it like that.")

I'm not fond of Asch/Luke, though it seems we share that opinion. And although I can't see Anise or Noir getting *serious* with Guy ever, you're absolutely right. XD He's really fun to tease :C I'm afraid I would tease him if I met him, maybe. Just once.

(Well, good! I swear I'm not anti-canon, I'm just anti-that'sareallyforcedandretardedrinoa-esquepairing.)

I'm not thinking serious really, no -- mostly teasing. X3 It's difficult to fully extrapolate Anise's relationships at her age anyway. Although Guy was kind of cute at Noir in Nam Cobanda!

(I'm not either! Like, I loved Lloyd/Collete, Zidane/Garnet, etc -- canon pairings/main pairings are cool with me! But I don't like it when I'm told over and over again that there's romantic tension in the air when the actual characters involved don't seem to feel it, much less attempt to sell me on it.)

(P.S. - Definitely not Rinoa.)

OH MY GOD IF YOU CHOOSE JADE AS YOUR MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IT IS HILARITY

Your entire party is all "........."

Jade: Is that an attempt to harass me?
Luke: I might be grateful to you, you know!
Guy: He's lying.
Anise: Liar.
Tear: That's a lie.
Natalia: Never.

*kidnap!*

Luke: You took Jade?! Are you crazy?!
Anise: Friends, before us stands a paragon of courage!
Guy: Haha, should we run away?
Luke: Maybe we should!
Natalia: I can't believe all of you. Of course we need to get the Colonel back!

... OH GOD XDDD that's hilarious. "RUN, RUN AWAYYYY~~"

And when they find him, Jade is so blithely pissed off. XD He's all,

Jade: SO. You were going to ditch me.
Luke: ... D: You heard that?
Jade: Obviously. But no, it's okay, I couldn't possibly accept your offer to become an experimental test subject.
Luke: ...I don't remember saying anything like that.

AAAHH Jade is so spiff XDD why is he so amaziiing~

|D

I agree about the whole Guysexuality thing. Like, it's like, he's never, ever gonna have sex with a woman. No matter how "cured" he is, because he's never going to get that "cured" anyway, and certainly not over the course of a year or what have you. And he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who'd just forgo the sexin' forever. I mean, he's pretty sensible.

As for Tear, I hated her after the whole "if you kill yourself at the tower of rem i'll never forgive youuuu!!!!!" thing. So hypocritical. I really, really liked her in the beginning, too. And then? She just started to suck.

I much, much prefer Natalia, anyway.

Also? Peony/Anise. I ship it. Uhh future!ship it, anyway, but Peony needs an heir and I think Anise could provide one without getting all emotionally attached. Plus, political move? Uh yes.

About Guy/Luke: I - I can't see it happening until waaaaaaay later. Guy's the only one that seems to realize that Luke is seven years old, and.. lkjsdfdsf kind of creepy dklsjfjsdf

...Luke looks like a grown (well, anime grown, so what, 15?) man to me.

No, I actually agree with her. Luke is 7. XD I mean, not physically, but mentally he's seven (because as a replica he was "born" seven years ago as essentially a baby that couldn't talk or walk and burbled happily at people; he's only had seven years since then) and if you think about it that way, his behavior throughout the game makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?! XD

Normally that sort of argument about clones irritates the crap out of me, and... I'm sorry but it still does. He's an idiot and inexperienced but not mentally a seven-year-old. XD;;

ARGUING IS FOR AIM

Final verdict: Luke is an emotional retard.

I didn't mind when she had her whole "I'll hate you if you do this" speech -- but afterwards when she then became a giant fucking hypocrite and tried to stop him sd;flksjdflksj YOU CAN'T DO BOTH, PICK ONE.

Natalia is made of awesome. :3

Peony/Anise would totally work -- especially as a political move. X3

I, I agree with your analysis of Guy/Luke. Luke is emotionally a kid and it honestly almost creeps me out to think of in-game romances with him -- but most especially Tear, which they tried so hard to do but he just comes off feeling like he's uninterested. (It's like he's at that developmental stage where boobies are funny, but not interesting yet.) He's always so much more mature around Natalia, so it doesn't creep me out as much, but Guy/Luke is definitely one of those situations where I love their relationship, and I see potential in it, but I don't really want to write about them making out -- not yet, anyway.

Anyway, Guy moved to Malkuth. He'll fit right in with all the other transparently quasi-gay people who seem to live there. :D?

You know I agree with everything in this post. Everything.

I, I don't know what happened when we replayed this game. D: It's like, before the game was a shambling zombie and I easily avoided it, but this time there was some sort of hypnotic effect and all I could do was watch helplessly while it bit my arm. D:

I think I'm slightly less obsessed with Asch. X3 But if I were going to RP him, I know I'd be watching every single detail obsessively too. ♥

XD The game did sort of ambush us.

I'd like to blame my obsession entirely on the RP, but that would be only partially true. D: (I mean, yes, my note-taking was for RP, but the rest...?) Instead I will just admit that I am addicted to tragic characters. Asch is kind of Roxas in reverse.

I WANT TO READ.

I haven't, b-but. ...

I, I know you're already mostly spoiled, but I hope not to spoil too much for the rest of it. D:

Um, playing is good though!!

I will write fic with Natalia to cheer you up maybe

Hope you don't me commenting here. ^^

You pretty much summed up why I don't really dig Tear or Luke/Tear, so I can't really add anything to that. I will say though that out of the three Tales games I've played - PSX!Phantasia, Symphonia, and Abyss - the first two have this ability to make me utterly dislike the canon ship(or in Symphonia's case, the most hinted at ship), and I usually really enjoy canon ships.

And hooray for someone else enjoying Luke/Natalia! Hardly anybody draws it, and absolutely *nobody* writes it. I had to get someone to write it off a drabble request meme, (http://community.livejournal.com/eternally_sky/13813.html?thread=78325#t78325) even.

Would you mind terribly if I friended you? I really enjoy your commentary on stuff. Even when I disagree, it's intelligent and funny enough that I don't take any kind of offense.

I like Lloyd/Colette, myself, but I sympathize -- I'm normally someone who can at least see, if not find inspiration to write for, the main couple. It's actively aggravating to be so incredibly turned off by the main pairing. XD I love every part of Tales of the Abyss except for the parts that involve Tear, but it's hard to convince myself to play through again because I dread every moment of the cardboard OTP moments the game attempts to put up in front of Luke and Tear.

On the other hand, Luke/Natalia is made of win and awesome and I want more of it. If that means I'll have to write it myself, so be it. :D I must remember to read that when I get home.

Of course friending is totally welcome. :3 I'm happy to hear that I'm opinionated without being offensive, and hope to keep up the trend. XD ~~I'm sure I'll annoy someone with the Tear rant I want to post...~~

Awesome, thanks.

And glad to hear that! I really enjoy your Ichigo/Orihime fic. You have this ability to make even mundane everyday activities really awesome because of brilliant characterization.

Tales games I've played - PSX!Phantasia, Symphonia, and Abyss - the first two have this ability to make me utterly dislike the canon ship

Er, that should be "last two." ^^;

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TotA: End-game thoughts + pairing thoughts

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