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Of all the inconsiderate...
What an asshole.
Those two of you who read this thing, you may or may not be acquainted with the renowned Silvermyth on my forum. Well, Myth-san seems to have a school assignment of some sort that requires her to interview someone who was somehow connected to the 9/11 attack. (I refuse to believe she could be doing this because it is that personally important to her; she's much too shallow. Or, if that is why, then it must be the "trendy" thing where she is, to pretend to be really humane.) I am a NY resident and I live only an hour away when I'm at home, and I had a relative who was actually in the World Trade Center, so she IM'd me and asked, without even a hello, what it was like to be in NY on that day.
I decided to humor her, because honestly, I have no qualms talking about it. As Neesama said, "It happened. It sucked. No amount of crying, weeping, mourning, gnashing of teeth or cries of vengeance will bring anybody back." That's more or less my opinion. I can talk about it, because it upsets me -- but more in a pained, personal loss kind of way than anything else. I won't dissolve into tears or mourn for the humanity of it all, etc.
And she insulted me for that.
I told her, in very in-depth detail, what that day was like for me, and what I felt. To inform the uninformed, I felt both a sense of tragedy -- more for the world than the actual event: I knew right away that it would be war, that we would see the world go to hell in a handbasket for this in some way or another -- and a very deep sense of anger.
I've always lived near NYC. I love NYC. One of the things I've always loved about it, one of the most constant, enduring symbols that I have interpreted to represent the city I so love, is its beautiful skyline. Every time I pass it in traveling I watch it, stare at it, memorize it; I could do that for hours. I love that skyline like I love my family and friends. It is, in a way, family and friends. That skyline meant a lot to me. And they destroyed that skyline -- destroyed the beautiful twin towers that shaped it distinctively. I will never be able to look at that skyline again without knowing that part of it is missing, and remembering what happened that day.
I had just finished telling her how angry I was, and I was going on to tell her about how my stepfather's employers tricked him out of being able to say he lost his job on 9/11. But she interrupted me.
She asked, "Don't you think it's a bit selfish to be angry about the skyline being ruined?"
What a fucking asshole.
I was so angry she would ask me that. Is there no MEANING in her pathetic little life? Is there NOTHING so important to her that she feels passionately about it? How can she ask me to relive that kind of dread and fear and then tell me I'm selfish because I was angry that my beloved city skyline was destroyed? The skyline that symbolizes my strong, resilient, uglybeautiful city, and will now always remind me of that day full of dread and fear and hurt?
How can someone like that even CLAIM to be sympathetic?
I went on to try and explain to her that thinking about the tragedy of people dying means nothing to me. Really, it doesn't. People die all the time. People, to boot, are stupid and self-interested and will walk all over you and always put their own interests first. People died, boo-hoo, big fucking deal, people die every single day in the so-called non-war we're not-waging in their countries right now, but you're not calling Dubya selfish for not thinking of them and weeping crystalline tears.
She told me that I was only proving to her that I was one of those stupid, selfish people.
I can't even describe my rage. There are no words for her inconsideration.
Those two of you who read this thing, you may or may not be acquainted with the renowned Silvermyth on my forum. Well, Myth-san seems to have a school assignment of some sort that requires her to interview someone who was somehow connected to the 9/11 attack. (I refuse to believe she could be doing this because it is that personally important to her; she's much too shallow. Or, if that is why, then it must be the "trendy" thing where she is, to pretend to be really humane.) I am a NY resident and I live only an hour away when I'm at home, and I had a relative who was actually in the World Trade Center, so she IM'd me and asked, without even a hello, what it was like to be in NY on that day.
I decided to humor her, because honestly, I have no qualms talking about it. As Neesama said, "It happened. It sucked. No amount of crying, weeping, mourning, gnashing of teeth or cries of vengeance will bring anybody back." That's more or less my opinion. I can talk about it, because it upsets me -- but more in a pained, personal loss kind of way than anything else. I won't dissolve into tears or mourn for the humanity of it all, etc.
And she insulted me for that.
I told her, in very in-depth detail, what that day was like for me, and what I felt. To inform the uninformed, I felt both a sense of tragedy -- more for the world than the actual event: I knew right away that it would be war, that we would see the world go to hell in a handbasket for this in some way or another -- and a very deep sense of anger.
I've always lived near NYC. I love NYC. One of the things I've always loved about it, one of the most constant, enduring symbols that I have interpreted to represent the city I so love, is its beautiful skyline. Every time I pass it in traveling I watch it, stare at it, memorize it; I could do that for hours. I love that skyline like I love my family and friends. It is, in a way, family and friends. That skyline meant a lot to me. And they destroyed that skyline -- destroyed the beautiful twin towers that shaped it distinctively. I will never be able to look at that skyline again without knowing that part of it is missing, and remembering what happened that day.
I had just finished telling her how angry I was, and I was going on to tell her about how my stepfather's employers tricked him out of being able to say he lost his job on 9/11. But she interrupted me.
She asked, "Don't you think it's a bit selfish to be angry about the skyline being ruined?"
What a fucking asshole.
I was so angry she would ask me that. Is there no MEANING in her pathetic little life? Is there NOTHING so important to her that she feels passionately about it? How can she ask me to relive that kind of dread and fear and then tell me I'm selfish because I was angry that my beloved city skyline was destroyed? The skyline that symbolizes my strong, resilient, uglybeautiful city, and will now always remind me of that day full of dread and fear and hurt?
How can someone like that even CLAIM to be sympathetic?
I went on to try and explain to her that thinking about the tragedy of people dying means nothing to me. Really, it doesn't. People die all the time. People, to boot, are stupid and self-interested and will walk all over you and always put their own interests first. People died, boo-hoo, big fucking deal, people die every single day in the so-called non-war we're not-waging in their countries right now, but you're not calling Dubya selfish for not thinking of them and weeping crystalline tears.
She told me that I was only proving to her that I was one of those stupid, selfish people.
I can't even describe my rage. There are no words for her inconsideration.
no subject
Anyhow, I have no problem with her opinion. I have never had a problem with her opinion. She's entitled to it; I don't care what it is. I have a problem with the way she smacked me in the face with her opinion -- the fact that she deliberately ran headfirst into a conversation with someone she's approaching as a TRAUMA VICTIM and pokes them about their TRAUMATIC EVENT and then insults them for their feelings about the event.
You're right, I'm sure, in that her opinion is different and she doesn't understand mine. I have no problem with that. My problem is that she took what is probably among the top five most horrifying moments in the more than two decades I've been alive, and told me that I wasn't entitled to my feelings about it. My problem is that I tried to explain it to her, and she only interrupted me again to declare that I was selfish. My problem is that she is close-minded and petty.
I want to see her approach a WW2 veteran with the same respect she gave me. I had friends die that day, my family will never be the same again, a symbol of my proud, wonderful city toppled and fell before the eyes of hundreds of millions of people -- and she called me selfish because of the way I mourned.
I don't care how old she is, and not how old she was. THAT was horribly offensive.
So, for the record, you were right as far as you went. You just had the wrong idea in mind as my problem.
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Now, I did tell her that she should have recognized that you had a different feeling about the topic than she did. She was simply curious, and yes, she did not respect your feelings by working her way through them. But she also didn’t know them, or else she wouldn’t have asked, and she’s not experience in ways of approaching them either. Sometimes when you’re trying to come to an understanding on one part, you end up saying something that upsets the other person, but you just don’t know it. How often has this happened between us?
And my post proves to you both, it’s really hard to understand how others felt about things. She said that I made her out to sound shallow, I had to point out that at 13 years, it’s okay to be confused about loss. I told her earlier today that the best way for her to figure out how she feels and others feel is to look into people’s art and writings.
I’m amazed and honestly a bit upset that you’d mock her poetry. Even though it’s been on your board before (as I believe she said) that’s still one of the ways that she works out her feelings and expresses them to others. By snarking at it, you’re kind of pushing down on that freedom and excellent way for her to learn about her self and her views. That’s what makes people fear others. To have people laughing at what you’ve done to show joy, sadness, or confusion. It doesn’t have to be great, it’s just a way for her to express herself, and that ought to be encouraged, not laughed at.
She’d obviously approach a WW2 vet differently. For one, she wasn’t around then. By having lived through something as profound as 9/11, she’s just looking for people with common reflections on it. She’s not from New York. We all know that New York has it’s own little culture that is distinctly separate from other parts of the nation. She doesn’t know that not just the people, but the buildings, the monuments, the little hot dog stands, taxis, etc. That’s all part of New York, the people, and the special ness that just… is the place. Outsiders don’t understand it, but they get some sort of feel of it when visiting. I know that much.
And I’m not trying to make it sound like New York is Care Bear… land or whatnot, but New York’s just one of those places you respect because it’s been looked up to for a long time. It’s been around for a long time. You can’t make kids understand that and it’s history in one sitting. That’s not possible. XP
My point with the rambling about New York’s special-ness, what she meant by “selfish” was your saying “my skyline.” She’s not from New York, she doesn’t understand the connection between you and the city. That is what I’m getting at. Perhaps if she had known that, after I explained it to her, then she wouldn’t have said that.
But seriously, you’re always wondering why people get scared of talking to you, and well… this is kind of like an example. I’m not saying it’s you… 100%, but I can explain it better at another time and place, I’m sure. If you’re interested in my… theory.
And that’s my soap box rant for now... o_O
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I have to reiterate: She asked me to tell her something INCREDIBLY personal. I told her, in PAINFUL DETAIL, things about my life that I have only mentioned to my closest friends in PASSING. (Albeit because they understood what I meant right away.) She wanted me to relive TRAUMA to satisfy her curiosity, and I was willing to do that.
She interrupted me, in the middle of that, to tell me that I was selfish. Twice. The second time while I was trying to explain to her why the deaths didn't horrify me, but the city's wound did.
Everything else is superficial. Whether or not her perspective is the same, whether or not she's from around here and feels similar loyalties... She told me, twice, in the middle of an attempt to explain to her one of the most deeply affective events of my entire life, that I was being selfish.
I stopped her, and warned her. I made clear my displeasure, blocked her, and wrote about my frustration, anger, and hurt on my LJ -- where she later intruded to be bitter and juvenile and, sandwiched in between bitter and juvenile, apologetic.
I think that you're underestimating both of us. You're assuming that I jumped to this conclusion because I wasn't capable of seeing the issue rationally -- and in a way, you're right; while I can see it rationally, I won't react to it rationally, because goddamn it, this changed my life and ruined my family. You're assuming that 13 is too young to understand that tragedy deserves respect, and that she couldn't possibly understand that it was bad to tell me repeatedly that I was selfish for my reactions to suffering. If she'd been ten, MAYBE I could allow that. But she's 15 now, and she should know better.
On a side note, I commented, once, in response to a friend's support, that I thought the poem she posted was bad -- and I DO think it was egotistical of her to have posted it there. I didn't say it gratuituously. I said it in the same sense I would say, "You know, this novel we're reading in ENG 210 is very long-winded." I feel it has faults. If you think it would be better, I could take it to the forum and explain what I didn't like about it, line by line, and why I felt that it was a bad poem. I thought that was a bad idea, and refrained from it in the first place, keeping my dislike to a single comment, not the main entry, in my own livejournal. Really, it had nothing to do with her -- and had nothing to do with you. You of all people should know that sometimes, things are not meant for other people to read.
Additionally -- I hate to have to make this personal, but I can't help but feel that this is an attack from you, and that you are deliberately avoiding the fact that I was hurt by what she said, insisting that "neither of us were right or wrong", because of our personal conflict. You haven't spoken to me once since our problem with the HPRP, except when I told you I was quitting as a mod because -- honestly -- I felt like you were avoiding me and you couldn't afford to do that with a mod... and now, when you insist that my pain doesn't matter because she WAS a child when an event happened years ago, despite the fact that it has nothing to do with the fact that she said something TODAY that I can not forgive so easily.
I'm really very sorry, especially if you had no intention of those underlying issues, but please stop. Your arguments are hurting me a lot more than the original offense did. That made me angry; this just makes me desperately unhappy.